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InternetDominus

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Wizard

Wizard
Posts: 47
Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:13 pm

I also told through support that I bought Enterprise only for the reason that I printing my reports.

I am not an SEO company, and won't sell those reports. Plus I am pretty sure SEO companies use their own in house software, and not much programs created by other companies.

They will soon realize that their pricing strategy does not conform to reality.

Imagine, if I buy Windows Vista, and at the end of one year, I get message on my screen that says, your year has expired, if you want to keep using Vista, pay same amount you initially paid because you are gonna be using Google, and Yahoo, and MSN, and we have to update our software so you can use those SE.

Webceo, WebPositionGold, and IBP don't charge like that. Full Price Live plan is a pure excuse to squeeze customers.

jamwerx

Senior

Senior
Posts: 15
Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:00 pm

Let me first say that I was taken care of and as long as that happens I will be a customer.... however I still don't like the biz model.

@ makabraboone
You don't even understand the point at all...
Quote:
Why don't you use Excel and your hands then - thus you'll be paying less?
Because I paid for the enterprise api which gives me that feature and it has nothing at all to do with what you are paying for and getting with updates. If the updates gave me additional uses or features then it would be palatable but not when the updates are the same across versions.
Quote:
"you want to pay LESS for updates, but you want to use Enterprise version to make MORE money yourself, right?"
No, this just shows you didn't read the posts at all.
I wanted the functionality of the app to print reports.
This is an extra function of the app and it should cost more.... I totally agree with that.

The updates do not add anything to this function nor do they add anything more than the pro version updates, the are the same update and should be charged the same amount, whereas the api's are not the same and so they are different prices.

For example:
You need a new car stereo so you head down to best buy to get one. You narrow it down to a model you like & say there are 2 choices, the basic model or the deluxe model. The deluxe model of course has additional features not available on the basic version say for instance it shows you the information about the track where as the basic version just shows track #. So you are paying more $$ to get that functionality.. right? right...

Ok so you buy the deluxe version and a few months later you go back to best buy to get a new cd and when you go to pay there is a guy ahead of you inline who is buying the same cd and he pays $15 for the cd because he only has the basic stereo & when you go up to pay they charge you $60 for the same cd because you have the deluxe stereo even thought the cd content is the exact same (but you "might" be enjoying the cd more because you have the deluxe model of course), you don't get any additional bonus tracks or videos or anything... it is the exact same cd. So you ask them why and they charged you so much and they tell you "well in order of us to sell that other guy the cd for $15 we have to jack your price up to cover their costs".

So as a customer they are telling me that they will treat the customers who don't spend as much $$ with them better than the customers who spend the most and that is what my issue is with.

And so you are saying that you are ok with that? If you say yes then I will assume that the bus that takes you to school is short & blue.

Their reasoning behind this is that you "might" be able to make more $$ of of it... keyword "might". But really they should just sell the product and not worry about what we "might" be making off of it. Just having the product doesn't mean we make more $$, we still have to sell our services in order to even use the product and then there is all the consolation time before and after and all that.

So if you follow that logic all these would be true.


I you & I need internet and so we call internet company for that service. They take our orders and give us the option of modems we can have, a basic or a deluxe, the basic one is $5 a month or a 1 time fee of $25 and deluxe is $15 a month or a 1 time fee of $75 but it is wireless. So I get the basic version and you get the deluxe version and you pay the additional costs for the modem to get wireless.

Then a month later we each get out bill and mine is $50 and yours is $200 and of course you are like WTF!!!!! So you call the internet company and they tell you "well seeing how you got the deluxe modem we assume that you will be using the internet for more than web surfing and email and you "might" be making money off using our internet so we are going to charge you more because you "might" be making money off it". And even though you are now paying a fee 3x more than me you don't get any additional features or anything, you get the exact same service as me but you get to pay more so that I can pay less... HEY THANKS!!!!

And so you think that is a good business plan?
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I have customer A and customer B, they both get web sites from me...
Customer A is a penny pincher who spends the minimum with me and just has a small biz site without a shopping cart for his business and customer B spends lots of money with me and has a small biz with a shopping cart.
Of course customer B's site cost him a lot more $$ since he got the shopping cart functionality.

6 months down the line they both want to change the look of their sites and so they call me and I do it and I send customer A a bill for my fees at $100 an hour and I send customer B my bill at $300 an hour, even though they got the same services performed and customer B got no additional features or benefits. I just figure that hell... he "might" be making more money off his site so his reward for spending more money with me on the original site than customer A did is to give him the gift of a higher fee...

So it turns out that customer A & B know each other and they compare bills and of course customer B is livid because he spent more $$ up front and then continues to pay more $$ for no additional benefits. So customer B calls me up and asks why that is and I tell him that I have to charge him 3x as much so that I can give customer a better price...

Yeah that would be a winning biz plan!
---------------------------------------------------------------------

You buy vista ultimate and when service packs 1 comes along they charge you $200 for it if you have ultimate but if you have the basic version the update is free even though you don't get any additional features beyond what the basic user gets.

Why?
Well because you "might" be using it for business and since you "might" be making $$ of it they charge you more.

Even m$ doesn't pull this kinda thing.
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I could go on and on with examples... it is just a bad biz model.

Quote:
LinkAssistant, you're st*pid and should stay away from business if you can't explain your customers WHY is this difference in prices between different versions. But I think that the market will kill you itself in case you'll be developing your software (which is pretty good, BTW) only, but won't be selling it.
It is great software and would be a shame if they lose it over this biz structure. You need to think long term profits and not short term quick cash. Also coming right out and saying that you are raping your big spending clients to benefit your low paying ones is biz suicide. You need to do the exact opposite and reward the people who spend the most with you but currently it is the other way around.
Quote:
- in Windows Vista Starter Edition you can run no more than 3 different applications at the same time - this is a totally artificial limitation, have you already asked Microsoft to remove this limitation?
No I haven't.. Actually because of crap like that I left m$ 5 years ago and went to a mac.. BEST THING I HAVE EVER DONE!!!!!

But again look at that example... When you buy ultimate you get those feature limits removed and you pay more upfront for that version after that the updates are them same and you don't pay more that the basic user.
Quote:
WHY is this difference in prices between different versions.
Well they did explain it but IMO the explanation wasn't rational at all.
Quote:
- ppl sell a screensaver for $999.... & - The Million Dollar Homepage turned to be a big bubble, but...
How is this relevant to any of this?
Quote:
You know, make up your mind: are you a Robin Hood fighting for the truth, or maybe you're just a greedy Scrooge McDuck who makes 2 pages of useless postings just to save 20 bucks a month?
I run a business and I want to know what I am paying for, so is it wrong of me to ask why I am paying more than the cheapskates for the EXACT same update? And should I not be mad when I am told that I am paying more so that the cheapskates can get it for less?
Quote:
most of your posts remind me of those wonderful "Dear Adobe" posts:
You mean since I was actually smart enough to figure out what was going on instead of blindly throwing my $$ into the wind and assuming I was getting more... Which because of my posts it is now known that isn't the case.

I called them out because I do like their products and I sincerely hope they are around for a long time so that I can use my investments in them long term but I am scared to death that their biz model is going to be the death of them.
Quote:
Why does the Acrobat Reader take two minutes to launch, and require updates twice a month, just to display PDF pages?
Because you choose to use windows. Does Adobe charge the same amount for those updates to all it's users or do they charge acrobat pro users more for the same update?
Quote:
Please stop annoying me with installer updates when all I want to do is view PDFs in my browser.
Then don't use it but this like most of your examples has NOTHING to do with anything on this thread.
Quote:
Lower your prices
Were you high when you responded to this thread?
The prices on the api's are fine, they just need to charge the same amount for updates since they are the same whereas the api's are not the same.
Quote:
make your software fast, stable and straightforward
One of the biggest things I have noticed since coming to a mac is that is how mac apps are... so much better than windows apps
Quote:
Why does Photoshop cost as much as a pre-owned small car? Drop the price !
And not much more than the apps here not to mention the total cost of ownership is much less for ps than these ones. Actually 1 enterprise app here and a yr of updates is more than ps and the service life of photoshop is much longer than a year and a half.

Now ps is expensive because you can make $$ of it but the difference between ps and this is that you pay for the api and not the updates, which is how it should be.
Quote:
I suppose they can charge as much as they want
Yes they sure can and yes it is their prerogative but I am also a paying customer and I will voice my concerns because I have made an investment in these products and I want to be sure they will be around so that I can benefit from it. It would be a shame for them to go out of biz because of such a poor biz model.
Quote:
your conversation reminds me of all those wholly wars like Windows/Linux, Commercial/OpenSource, and so on
If that is what you are getting out of this then you really shouldn't be even be in this discussion as that isn't even on the same planet as what I am talking about.


@ InternetDominus
Quote:
They will soon realize that their pricing strategy does not conform to reality.
Well they are stuck on believing that they need to charge as if everyone who buys the product will get rich using it which is not the case. The price needs to be the price and what we make or don't make off of using it is completely irrelevant and none of their business.

Maurice

Senior

Senior
Posts: 21
Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:51 pm

see my topic here:seo-talk/post4099.html
the reply was that I could continue the discussion here.. I did but the answer I didnt got untill now.. so I ask you again Link-assistant:

can you explain why I never got an e-mail about live!plan in the early years I used the programs? Thats about 2 years ago...

I really like the software and I recommend it always to others but now I must pay a crazy amount for updates of SE's?? I really doubt if I continue to recommend linkassistant...

megadoc

Newborn

Newborn
Posts: 4
Posted: Sat May 02, 2009 9:47 am

Wow, I have gone from being totally jazzed about LA, wanting to buy all the products and maybe resell them to crashing to earth. Semi-hidden fees aren't cool and charging more for updates just to be able to print? Is that a usage fee (potential?).

Guys, it's okay to charge for data updates --- but you have a chance to be HUGE - your software is really good. Why not come out with some more attractive pricing models for the Live Updates and the Enterprise Features? You'll make a lot more money in the long run and in the short run.

I think the biggest factor is the pricing expectations --- people are jazzed about the software then find out that the updates cost as much or more than the software and that they are ongoing. It almost might make sense to RAISE the price of software and LOWER the price of the update. And I can see the LA side of things from the Agency perspective --- using the reports for tons of clients, etc --- for the most part though, it's just us little guys (solo webmasters) who'd love to have the product suite - Enterprise - but the data update costs are just to much for that. Oh well.

webatomic

Senior

Senior
Posts: 29
Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:58 am

Yeah, I'm totally bummed. I've been singing the praises of this software to all my Twitter followers and was geared up to do a big affiliate pitch through Pepperjam, but if what I'm reading is true, I can't recommend these products based on the deceptive marketing tactics alone. And where are people getting the idea that SEO and Keyword Elite carry monthly charges? I have owned both pieces of software for several years, paid I think $197 for the 2 combined and have received nothing but free periodic updates. I love the LA stuff particularly because I can run it on my Mac, but unless LA changes their pricing scheme, I guess it's back to Windoze for me for SEO.....Damn!

LinkAssistant

User avatar
Site Admin
Posts: 5625
Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:20 pm

webatomic

https://ssl.clickbank.net/order/orderfo ... try=&zipc=&

"future payments: $47* *billed monthly". SEO Elite' website has several index pages so they are using several price schemes spread randomly over their users.

I do not see why you would call our practice deceptive, considering clear mentions of Live! Plan subscriptions on every purchase page.

Almost all of our customers clear this stuff out before purchase (having actually read the conditions) with our customer support or pay eagerly once the time comes. This is what our software costs, and the pricing we offer, so please bear with us if you appreciate good service.

webatomic

Senior

Senior
Posts: 29
Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:32 pm

Quote:
webatomic

https://ssl.clickbank.net/order/orderfo ... try=&zipc=&

"future payments: $47* *billed monthly". SEO Elite' website has several index pages so they are using several price schemes spread randomly over their users.

I do not see why you would call our practice deceptive, considering clear mentions of Live! Plan subscriptions on every purchase page.

Almost all of our customers clear this stuff out before purchase (having actually read the conditions) with our customer support or pay eagerly once the time comes. This is what our software costs, and the pricing we offer, so please bear with us if you appreciate good service.
I paid more up front for KE and SE combined, so no monthly pricing scheme for me. Your practice is deceptive because you don't mention that the software ceases to function after 6 months unless you pay more. Unless I missed that somewhere. Can you show me where on your site you disclose that fact?

jamwerx

Senior

Senior
Posts: 15
Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:43 pm

right...

I use rank tracker to quickly see ranking changes and thats all, so really I don't need updates for that but when my plan ran out the program quit working when instead it still should remain fully functional but of course if you use the features that require constant updates then those could be wrong but in my case to simply check the current rank shouldn't be tied into that.

Personally I have never seen an app stop working like these ones do.

webatomic

Senior

Senior
Posts: 29
Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:54 pm

It's like selling a car along with a free service plan for 6 months and saying "in order to keep your car in top condition, you can extend your service plan after 6 months for $x per month" etc., but what really happens is that after 6 months the car no longer starts. Sorry guys, but unless I'm misunderstanding something, that's a scam. Now if you disclosed up front that the car will not function without the service plan, you may not sell as many cars, but at least you'd be honest with your customers.

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